A Christian friend of mine recently trotted out the tired lie that Ron Paul "blames America for 9/11." This prompted four questions in my mind that I would like my Christian friends to answer:
#1). Can you please quote for me, from either his speeches or writings, where exactly Dr. Paul blamed America for 9/11?
#2). Rick Santorum is on the record saying he would "...degrade those (Iranian) facilities though air strikes". Can you please show me from the New Testament where it is taught that either nations or individuals should use preemptive force against their enemies?
#3). Newt Gingrich received a standing ovation for invoking Andrew Jackson and suggesting that with regard to America's enemies, he would, "Kill them!" Can you please show me from the New Testament where Jesus or any of his disciples taught that we should kill our enemies?
#4). Mitt Romney has repeatedly stated, "This century must be an American century." The American Century he speaks of is being built upon an unprecedented mountain of debt. Can you please show me, again from the New Testament, anywhere where it is taught that either nations or individuals should use debt to further their aims, or that any one nation has a mandate to impose its stamp upon any other nation?
It's time for "values voters" to put up or shut up. Either you value the teachings of Jesus and his disciples, found in the New Testament, or you don't. Which is it? (Sorry, that was a fifth question, wasn't it? Oops -- make it six.)
7 comments:
1. Ron Paul has said America invited 9/11. Not the same as "caused" 9/11, but still pretty insulting. And yes, I do know that he's talking about blowback and all. I just happen to think that Bin Laden's motives weren't legitimate in any way at all.
2. I think right now there is no reason to attack Iran. But I do believe the Bible gives you the right to defend yourself, and it is very possible for a situation to warrant preemptive force, like if we were faced with an obvious plan of attack that was on the verge of being set in motion. And no, I'm not trying to defend attacking Libya, Iran, Iraq, of Afghanistan.
3. Jesus says we should love our enemies. He does not say a nation should take a pacifist stance and refuse to ever use deadly force. If a country refuses to defend itself, it has no right to be a country, and the Bible states in Romans that God set up governments, and that he gave them the power of the sword. So, assuming that we follow Christians Just War policy, killing your enemies is perfectly acceptable. It would be very evil for a nation to let its citizens be killed because it was following some misguided pacifist policy.
So I would say self-defense is good. Murder and warrant less killing is not. And I'm not defending any of the current wars either. I would say look at Luke 22 and Exodus 22.
4. America shouldn't take precedence in the manner you described. I could easily to that in an ethical and moral way just through strong economic policy.
You didn't read the questions carefully.
I did, I just didn't answer them in the way you wanted because some of the questions were poorly formed. I'll try and be more simple this time.
1. He doesn't. Unless you interpret his expositions on blowback as blame.
2. You shouldn't try and force the answer you want by only offering me half of the Bible. What do you think the Bible says about self-defense?
3. You're going to need to define this question better for me. Again, what do you think the Bible teaches about self-defense?
4. No I can't.
1. Blowback doesn't equal blame.
2. & 3. You tell me -- that's the whole point. I also asked that the discussion be limited to NT because that portion contains the preponderance of teachings by both Christ and his disciples. What do they teach?
The NT focuses on living a Christ-like life. It doesn't speak directly about self-defense like the OT does. Taking in all in context, self-defense is justified, but if you're going to limit it to the NT, the only thing you could say is that Jesus values life. To me, that means to protect my life and the lives of others, in the context of "love your enemies" and the golden rule. Preemptiveness is a different debate.
And this is why I asked you to quote chapter and verse. When you preface a comment with the words "to me", that shows that you're reading your values into the text (which you can do -- it's a free country). You may be able to justify the logic in your own mind, but I can't see that "love your enemies ... and do good to those that hate you" means love them and do good EXCEPT when you think they might harm you, in which case you should bomb them first before they can do anything.
Once again we are at loggerheads on this issue, so I'll not likely respond further.
Again, that's why I was frustrated with your NT limits. I have loads of verses to quote, but it's all from the OT. The NT simply didn't focus on that area. You know God values life. The Bible makes it clear that if you let someone die and you could have saved him, you're guilty of bloodshed. You can love your enemies and still use lethal force, when you are forced too. And I'm not going to even try to justify Preemptiveness. I said to me because Jesus doesn't speak directly about self-defense, he just makes clear that God values life.
Here you go:
Psalm 82:4
Proverbs 24:11
Ezekiel 33
Deuteronomy 22:8
Exodus 21:29-31
Exodus 22:2-3
Nehemiah 4:8-23
Esther 8-9
Psalm 144:1
Psalm 18:34
Yes I know God says to not envy them man of war, and that Jesus says to love your enemies, and that David he too much blood on his hands in God's eyes. But the purpose of showing you these specific verse was to point out that God values life, and if it comes to where you need to use lethal force to defend yourself, you can. Not because it's okay to hate your enemies, but because God values life. You can kill someone and not hate them.
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